Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Teamwork and Career Transitions

ALISON BEARD: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Alison Beard. I’m on the phone with NBA legend turned author-historian Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He’s the subject of are January/February life’s work interview. Kareem, thanks so much for joining us today.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: You’re welcome.

ALISON BEARD: You were one of the first basketball players to focus on conditioning work and cross training. So which do you think is more important, talent or hard work?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I think that to really excel, you have to have both things going for you, good work ethic and some obvious physical gifts. But a good work ethic can overcome lazy people with talent every time just because of the whole idea of conditioning and preparation being such a key aspect for any athletic competition. My talent would not have lasted as long as it did without that aspect of it. But the natural gifts that I had– every individual is unique. And I was really blessed with certain athletic skills. So I always have felt that the two of them really need to be paired. And that’s the best recipe for success.

ALISON BEARD: Now, you’ve worked with many coaches over the year, including the great John Wooden at UCLA. What were the most important lessons you learned from them?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I’d say the most important lesson that I learned was preparation. It’s something that Coach Wooden stressed very emphatically. I trained with Bruce Lee for a while, and it was the same deal. Being prepared, having a good understanding of your own strengths and limitations, and having a good game plan to go about what you’re doing.

ALISON BEARD: When you started playing at UCLA, it was quite a racially charged era. The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were passed while you were in school. And I know that in the NCAA and in the NBA you occasionally faced racism. So how did you and your coaches play through those distractions?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, because when I grew up, I really watched the civil rights movement unfold, the ’50s and ’60s, when I was in grade school and high school. I watched it literally on the evening news and followed it in newspapers. So none of that took me by surprise. I knew that certain factions in our country really embrace racism. And they didn’t seem to be going anywhere. So it never ever surprised me when I encountered racism.

ALISON BEARD: And so it wasn’t a distraction?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: No, I wasn’t going to let it distract me because if you let it distract you, you’re playing into their hands. Their whole purpose is to distract you and prevent you from succeeding. And to me, success was to go– my success and the success of black Americans was exactly what would silence people indulged in racism. So keep your eyes on the prize.

ALISON BEARD: Mm-hm.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: That was one of the adages of the civil rights movement, and I tried to do that.

ALISON BEARD: You were known as an incredibly focused player, and you were sometimes criticized for not being social or personable enough. If you had it to do over, would you do it differently now? How did that affect your career?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, it really had a negative effect in how I was portrayed to people. And I had no one to explain to me the value and importance of public relations. For me, being at the top of my game and working hard and as well as I could for the people who employed me, that was my primary focus. And everything else was secondary.

ALISON BEARD: So you were a star on all the teams you played on. Did you ever encounter resentment? And if so, how did you deal with it?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I didn’t encounter too much resentment because my presence on the team meant that we would win. And in a team sport like basketball, everybody wants to win.

ALISON BEARD: What did you learn from the other people you played with, stars like Magic Johnson, and then the people who weren’t as famous but were great role players?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: No matter what, you can’t win by yourself. And one person can’t get it done. So you appreciate the guys who put in the hard work and don’t necessarily get the accolades or the big paycheck. But they’re the guys that help make it possible for you to shine and for the team to shine. And I’ve always appreciated them.

ALISON BEARD: There’s a great story about Magic’s first game with you where he ran up to you after you sunk the winning shot and gave you a big hug. And you said something like, “You can’t do that every game.” What did he teach you in terms of being emotional and more personable?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, what happened was I made the winning shot, as you mentioned, and then it was like he had just one another NCAA championship. He was going crazy, wrestling me down, and hugging me, and everything. And when we got in the locker room, I said, look, we’ve got 81 more game to play. So he got the message from me that it was a long haul, and if he’s going to ride the emotions that intensely, you’ll be a wreck. But from him in that same moment, I learned that it’s OK to enjoy the moment, and have some fun, and enjoy things as you’re having the experience. You can’t be just so totally about brass tacks that you don’t enjoy the smaller successes that, of course, lead to bigger and better things.

ALISON BEARD: So as a captain, how did you motivate other players?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I tried to motivate people by example. I was always in shape. I was always a team player. I understood the fundamentals of the game and worked on them constantly during season and in the off season, and just tried to be always prepared and focused. And I tried to lead by example.

ALISON BEARD: And what about managing up to your coaches?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I never really tried to influence the coaches. I was very fortunate to have very good coaches who, for the most part, knew what they were doing. So if I had a suggestion, I would try to convey it in a respectful way. Respect is always something that makes people more amenable to criticism, or maybe a correction that you might see in something that they’re doing. So just the whole idea of respect and mutual appreciation really smooths out those interactions between people on different levels within a team or an organization.

ALISON BEARD: You’ve done a fair amount of coaching work since your retirement. So how difficult is the transition from player to coach? I read one interview with you where you said you had this vast body of knowledge in your head. You knew the game inside and out. But then, the trick was to figure out how to communicate that.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Just you have to be patient. A talented young athlete always thinks that they’ve got it all figured out. And I’ve been in that position. And you don’t. You never do. People that have played the game and have had experiences in whatever game it is, there are things that they know that can help you. You’ve got to be flexible. You’ve got to understand personalities, what motivates people, how to break through to things that make people stubborn and willing to try new and different things. You’ve got to figure out ways to get around those obstacles.

ALISON BEARD: Now, you’ve never been a head coach in the NBA or the NCAA, and many people think that’s a travesty. So I’m just wondering why you think that hasn’t happened and whether you’re disappointed.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I think it hasn’t happened for a number of reasons. When I first started to try to do some coaching, I was approaching 50 years of age. So I was advanced in years to be a rookie out there. And then, just the whole thing that you mentioned earlier about my lack of being social. When I played, I had a reputation as being a difficult person. And that might have scared people off.

ALISON BEARD: And have you come to terms with that?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Yeah, I’ve come to terms with it. It’s been disappointing at times. But I’ve had some successes that have made me feel great, especially most recently with Andrew Bynum, coaching him with the Lakers. The things that I showed him enabled him to improve greatly. He was 17 years old when I started working with him and had not played a lot of basketball. And he made great strides because he had a great attitude. And I think I was able to do a very good job with him and make him a very valuable member of our team. So I hang my hat on that situation.

ALISON BEARD: So tell me about your transition to working as a writer, a historian, and a filmmaker.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I didn’t really see it as a transition. I used to get good grades in English and history class because I enjoyed writing and I did well academically in my English classes. So when I had to do something that was more or less like a real job, I had that foundation to call upon. And it was fun. I’ve enjoyed writing since I’ve retired. And I’ve had six books published. I have my seventh coming out in January. It’s a children’s book. But it’s been fun.

The filmmaking, I’ve always been a movie fan. And I think that that has a lot to do with my mom, who was a big movie fan. And she would always take me when she went to the movies. So I got to see all the classic films in the ’50s. I worked for a film company. That was my job at UCLA for three summers. I now work for Columbia Pictures. And I got to work on the inside of the film industry. And it’s something that always intrigued me.

ALISON BEARD: And so this transition, when you told the world that you were going to move from being a basketball player, or in addition to being a basketball player, you’re going to be a writer and historian. Could you get people to take you seriously right away?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: I don’t know. I think so many athletes make grandiose statements. And very rarely do they follow through. So I would imagine that most people were waiting for the proof. But the proof was pretty forthcoming. My first history book, Black Profiles in Courage, really was received well. It made the New York Times bestsellers list.

And for me, getting feedback from a whole lot of teachers– a lot of teachers end up having to teach in the inner cities. And they don’t know anything about black history. And the teachers who got my book and read it, I got a lot of feedback from them saying that, hey, I read your book and it really made it possible for me to figure out my lesson plan and structure of my class. And that wasn’t financial, but it was a great reward for me. It really made me very satisfied with what I did.

ALISON BEARD: Book tours obviously require lots of publicity. So how does someone who used to be quite reserved and has been described as shy go about selling himself around the country?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, shyness is something you have to overcome. I never really had stage fright. I could go out and perform. It’s just when it comes down to talking to people, I was kind of reserved. But I got over it. And as my career progressed through the 1980s, at the last part of my career, I started doing a lot better talking to the press and relating to the fans. And I think that’s continued to improve in my retirement. A lot of people the people in the press and media are good people. And by being more accessible, you get to find that out. It’s just like being in any marketplace. There’s good people and there’s thieves there. You’ve got to be able to have the good judgment to understand which is which and adjust.

ALISON BEARD: Last question. What would you like to be remembered for?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I know I’ll be remembered for the things I did on the basketball court. Can’t escape that. So I hope that people will also see that I was not just someone of a singular dimension, and that I was multi-dimensional, and that my books and my film, and hopefully I’ll get to do more films, that they were worthy of somebody that should be respected. And if that’s how I’m remembered, I’d be very pleased.

ALISON BEARD: Terrific. Well, thank you so much for your time.

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR: You’re welcome.

ALISON BEARD: That was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. For more, go to hbr.org.