Building a Culture of Respect on Your Team

HANNAH BATES: Welcome to HBR on Leadership, case studies and conversations with the world’s top business and management experts, hand-selected to help you unlock the best in those around you. It’s important to express appreciation for your team, but how do you do it? Do you have a culture of respect on your team? Kristie Rogers has identified two types of workplace respect in her research: owed and earned. Rogers is an associate professor of management at Marquette University. She says that owed respect refers to basic workplace civility. In contrast, earned respect is related to an employee’s achievements. In this episode, you’ll learn how to practice both types of workplace respect and what happens when their balance is out of whack. You’ll also learn how managers can unknowingly communicate disrespect to their employees. If you’re trying to become a more self-aware leader, this episode is for you.  It originally aired on HBR IdeaCast in July 2018. Here it is.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Sarah Green Carmichael. All of us would probably enjoy feeling more respected at work. In fact, employees rank respect as the most important leadership behavior.

KRISTIE ROGERS: And yet they feel that their expectations of respect in the workplace — the vast majority of people say their expectation is not met.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So as a leader, how much do you think about the kind of respect you’re showing other people. Even if creating a culture of respect is a priority, our guest today says getting workplace respect right isn’t simple.

KRISTIE ROGERS: It’s more nuanced than we think it is. So the single word “respect” is often used to mean two very different things.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That’s Kristie Rogers. She’s an assistant professor of management at Marquette University. And she’s the author of the HBR article “Do Your Employees Feel Respected?” Kristie, thank you so much for coming in today.

KRISTIE ROGERS: Oh, thank you for having me. I’m happy to be here.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, in the article, you wrote that it’s common for managers to not realize that their employees don’t feel respected. How can that be?

KRISTIE ROGERS: One of the issues is leaders often don’t know what to look for or what their employees are expecting when it comes to respect. Second, leaders are often buffered from the idea of respect in general because of their status. So, they’re in a position where they have power, they’re generally treated pretty well, and it’s similar to someone getting eight hours of sleep every night of their adult life and not being very sensitive to someone else’s exhaustion. So, there’s a bit of a disconnect there for many managers. Finally, a manager, a leader being disrespectful is a difficult message to funnel upwards, so it might not be feedback that they’re getting very often if respect is lacking or if they are overtly disrespectful to their employees because employees may not know how to communicate something that is negative feedback and is such a central behavior to the leader role.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: What are some of the things that managers might be doing that might communicate disrespect, even though they don’t have any intention of communicating that at all?

KRISTIE ROGERS: So, some of those things might just be treating employees very differently without recognizing that they’re doing it. So, saying hello to some people in the morning and walking right by others. It could be as simple as that, that would make one employee, especially someone new who is adjusting, think, why are some people treated this way and others not. It could be that a leader doesn’t quite understand the norms yet in a particular workplace and gives negative feedback in a public setting where it’s usually given in private in this particular department or this company. So, it may be a simple behavior. It’s not necessarily intended in a malicious way, but employees are particularly observant of these things and often comparing themselves to the way their peers are treated.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: You distinguish between two types of respect, owed respect and earned respect. And I feel like before we continue would be really good to just get clear on what those are. So, let’s start with owed respect. What’s owed respect?

KRISTIE ROGERS: This is simply the way that people are treated with a level of civility, with a basic regard that is professional, that is decent. And the second is earned respect. So, earned respect is something that’s recognized as valued achievements, valued attributes of a particular person and gives them a chance to be unique, to stand out in a positive way. Those two types of respect meet different universal needs that we have. So, owed respect, when you receive that, it helps you to feel like you belong somewhere, like you are accepted, where earned respect is much more about status; it’s about positive regard or positive recognition. And those are two basic drivers, basic needs, that humans share and that are met by respect but met differently.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: One of the Aha moments I had in reading this article was when you talk about what happens when owed respect and earned respect get out of balance in an organization. So, what happens in an organization, for example, that’s really high on owed respect and really low on earned respect?

KRISTIE ROGERS: That might undermine the motivation to perform and to stand out, because if there’s a sense that no matter what I do here today or how late I stay or the quality of the work I produce, we’re all going to be treated the same, it could undermine that. Now, one of the benefits of that environment is it may promote collaboration because people are rewarded the same way. It’s as a team or as a unit we are all treated similarly and so we feel safe, we feel comfortable with one another.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: And what happens if you flip it around and you’re really high and earned respect and not as high in owed respect?

KRISTIE ROGERS: I think a classic example of this would be a forced curve of any sort: when you are saying only a certain percentage of people can fit into this very top category and you’re all competing with one another. So, if earned respect is very high and owed is very low, it creates a competitive atmosphere that is filled with social comparison: instead of meeting the standard, I know I need to outperform the people surrounding me. So, that is not collaborative, and that’s likely to undermine the interactions between peers in terms of owed respect, that I’m not going to be particularly kind and helpful and civil to the people around me if I recognize that my success, that my accomplishments, depend on outworking everyone around me.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: As a manager, how do you balance those two types of respect — I mean, know that you’re balancing them and not leaning too hard on one or the other?

KRISTIE ROGERS: So I think the first is an awareness that these two types exist and ongoing attention to their interplay. Having a pulse on how people are perceiving things, when that balance might be a bit off. The risk is in one type undermining another. So, if owed is too high or too low or vice versa, what happens when one of those pieces falls apart? So, in terms of balance, I think in all settings, a foundation of owed respect as critical when that’s there, people feel safe, they can be vulnerable, they can try things out, they can be creative. What managers should be attentive to playing with is the earned respect. So, Do I need people to really work collaboratively right now? Should I reward them as a team, praise them as a unit? Or is this a time when I’m really looking for individual contributors to thrive? Should I have more attention to high earned respect? So, that’s something that depending on the needs, depending on the context, can be played with a little bit more. The key is making sure that that foundation of owed respect is not at risk at any point because when that falls apart it becomes really difficult to repair.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, if you’re a manager who’s realizing that the respect in your team is a little bit out of balance — you’re too high on one and two low on the other — how can you bring them back into equilibrium with each other?

KRISTIE ROGERS: I think it — well, it depends which way it’s swinging. If it is too high on the owed side, and there could be people doing great work who don’t feel that they’re adequately recognized for it, talking to those people in private about the great work that they are doing and that you are certainly seeing it and you want to do more to recognize it, asking them what might be most valued to them, that could be one step to move in that direction. But being attentive to how are we going to move the needle on this in a productive way. So, looking at the results and evaluating, what is this culture right now? Is this a place where everyone feels that no matter what I do, we’re all going to be treated the same way? Or is this a place right now where people feel if they share their best practices, someone else’s work may undermine theirs — those questions could give you cues. I think one practice I thought that was very impressive and worked really well was to keep people from comparing themselves to others, making the performance standards incredibly clear and making it clear to the employees that you are competing against a standard, not against one another. So, here is the sales goal for everyone here. How are you doing relative to that goal? That clarity keeps employees from saying, Well, I think I’m doing well because I’m doing better than the person sitting next to me, but the person sitting to my left is doing a little bit better; I feel uncertain. And those dynamics are much less healthy for the owed respect environment than having a very clear, here is what we’re expecting, here is our goal and here’s where you are right now relative to your goal. It seems so simple, but something as simple as that can protect the owed respect dynamic and a takeaway. The angsts of that social comparison that can breed competition.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Now, I feel like in our conversation, you’ve given some sort of hints as to why this is good for business, right? Obviously, innovation, collaboration. Sometimes you want competition, but let’s just really put a finer point on this. Why is this so important for the bottom line?

KRISTIE ROGERS: I went into this research thinking it was about these basic human needs that people will perform better when these needs are met, when they feel that they belong, when they feel that their need for status or positive recognition is met. Now it turned out there was so much more to it and a lot of that was around personal growth, so when people feel respected, they’re in a position of security, of safety, where they’re able to try new things and to be become their best self at work. I’ve found in other research that even in the most elite companies, the reason that people leave is because they don’t necessarily see a path forward. They don’t see themselves continuing to grow and evolve, and so the recognition of that is one reason that this is certainly good for business. Another is the loyalty that employees show to their companies that are respectful to them. So, there’s a reciprocity in play here that I am treated as though I am very valuable and I’ll do anything to add value to this place. In return, I want to see this company succeed, and I’ll go out of my way to make that happen.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: The setting you chose to do your research and is unusual for HBR. You studied at work program for female inmates at a state prison in Arizona. Why did you choose that environment for your research?

KRISTIE ROGERS: Yeah, so Televerde is a business-to-business marketing firm. They contract with high-tech companies that want to reach clients. The women have their call centers built into each prison unit, one on each security level, so the women walk from their prison cells to the call center together to go to work every day, and they are paid for doing the work. They’re paid significantly better than any of the other jobs they can obtain in the prison setting. And they are primarily making outbound calls to decision makers in organizations. So, they’re calling, they’re calling directors of IT and saying, we know you’re using this technology right now. We think this might be really useful. Could we set up an appointment with you to talk with someone from company X? So, that is how they’re doing the work. Televerde also has a call center in their corporate office that’s located about 30 miles or so from the prison, but primarily their call centers are inside of the prison units. So for me, knowing how difficult it is to articulate what respect looks like, this contrast was so stark and provided the perfect opportunity. These women move back and forth in a single day between an environment where they do not feel valued at all to a very professional setting with this healthy, respectful culture. So I thought this is exactly the place to examine these dynamics that are likely present in all workplaces, but easier to articulate here.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, what is Televerde doing to communicate to these inmates — and employees, I should say — that they are respected?

KRISTIE ROGERS: So, that’s actually the first distinction they make on day one, when the women come in, is when you come through that door, you are not an inmate; you are an employee, you are a colleague, you are a professional, and we’re going to treat you with that responsibility and with that regard. But there, there were many things they did throughout the process of onboarding these women to help them make that distinction. And I remember the trainers telling me that at first women will come in and write down their inmate number instead of their name on the top of a sheet of paper because they’re so used to doing that and the message is, no, here you are you. And that is a valuable thing. They help them understand what that means. So, they take a personality test in the first couple of days of orientation to understand, here’s my personality profile, here’s how that might fit with the job. And each of these aspects can be valuable to a different part of the job, but treating them as individuals that are bringing something to the workplace, which is very different from the experience they have on the prison yard.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: How did you observe this experience changing these women over time?

KRISTIE ROGERS: When I first talked with the executive team about this, they said, we know there’s this transformation that happens over the first maybe four months, maybe six months, might be nine months, but we go into a call center at first and some of the new hires don’t necessarily want to make eye contact. They’re very shy. They’re not very confident yet, and we’re not sure what’s happening with them, but eventually they seem to flourish. They strike up conversations with us. They tell us about their most recent achievement. So, I knew something was there, and I wanted to understand how that worked. From what I observed, and I followed many of the newcomers through their first six to nine months on the job to see this progression coming into the organization, there were all of these small wins for them. So, even through the application process they had to pass a typing test and a phone interview. And there were small accomplishments that when they achieve those things, they thought, OK, if I can do this, maybe I can get through the next step as well. In the first two weeks, they learned all about business. They learned how org structures work, things they may never have been exposed to before, and they had exams that went along with that because they were earning community college credits in addition to being trained for the job. When they passed those quizzes, when they pass the exams, those were more accomplishments, hurdles to clear that built confidence. They were also working with mentors, and I would see that connection and then progress from watching the mentor to taking control of part of the call too. Finally doing a call on their own and the support from the managers and from their peers when they succeeded was amazing to see. So, each time someone achieved a deliverable, they would ring a bell in the call center. The first time someone did that, everyone in the call center stood up and gave them a standing ovation. But each time people clapped and we’re excited for other’s accomplishments and the feedback that was really meaningful to them that I saw come through on several occasions was the person on the other end of the phone saying what a great job they had done or how knowledgeable they were, and they thought, wow, this person has no idea who I am or where I am, and just complimented me on this. Or, one woman received feedback that a company had listened to a call and thought that she was in house, not someone they were contracting with and she was so flattered by that. And so that external validation people they wouldn’t have contact with otherwise. Those were very meaningful cues as well.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So, to go back to your framework about earned respect and owed respect, how would you divide up all these different positive things? How can we start to see which is owed in which is earned?

KRISTIE ROGERS: I think the owed respect piece was the foundation that was set in the beginning. And those are the things typically that address everyone in the room. So, everyone here is a professional. Everyone here should be addressed this way, and here is how we support our employees. Here are the programs we offer our employees. Those are the cues that let them know that you are a part of something meaningful and something important and that you belong here. Each time someone was earning something, that I categorized as earned respect. If they had done something that was recognized, maybe something they couldn’t do the day before, that was a piece that gave them a different type of validation. Letting them know, know that they were doing something very well and that their unique contribution was valued.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: I could see some people hearing about this company and just saying, this is such an unusual company. I mean, is this just an extraordinary company or do you think that there are things here that every company in every manager can learn?

KRISTIE ROGERS: Yeah, so Televerde certainly operates in a very extreme context. Few workplaces are going to be anything like this when you look at the details, but when you think about the bigger picture, the vast majority of employees come to work with the goal of becoming something or someone better than they were on day one and that is not different from most of the women coming in. Sure, their transition is very stark to see going from inmate to a working professional, but people are looking for organizations where they can get better. They might be taking on a job that seems like a real stretch for them and knowing that it’s going to take some work for me to transition from being who I am right now, to being someone who can confidently perform in this role. It could be employees in an organization going through a change with new leaders and wondering, am I going to be treated the same? So, I think the vulnerability and the underlying sense of, do I belong here? Am I valued here? Can I contribute something that is unique and that really matters is a concern for most people in the workplace. This environment just brings that to light differently because it’s such an extreme context.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: It seems like so much of this is just about being more aware of what you’re doing. Is there an area where managers have a blind spot?

KRISTIE ROGERS: Yes, so two pitfalls that I observed were first, if managers did not take the time to form relationships or be in close contact with their employees when they started on the job, employees felt like, yes, this person can give me recognition. They could give me badges or certificates or something, but how are they going to do that if they don’t really have any idea what I’m doing day to day or how things are going. And so that perceived distance was very troubling for employees, that I could be doing many things right now, but I’m not going to receive that recognition that I deserve because my manager is a bit out of touch. The other was employees were incredibly attentive to the values of the company and seeing whether or not those values came to life. And a manager doesn’t need to do all of this on their own. So, I see it as a leader’s job to plant the seeds for both owed and earned respect. Yes, they certainly have more responsibility for earned respect. But especially for owed, they plant the seeds and it’s an employees’ peers that make that come to life. So, many of these women would say, when I see it or hear it from someone in orange, then it becomes real; until then, it’s just words that are values or a vision or a mission that I’ve had at other companies before. And I’m not sure if those things are going to come to life here. When the mentors, when the experienced employees were onboard and working to make those things come to life, they really did. But if a manager behaved in any way that contradicted the values, and that was observable to employees there, respect cues were not credible after that. They would say, I don’t really find this person believable; I don’t see them as being a credible source of information. So, if they’re saying, I’m doing a great job, or they really value my work, that’s not as meaningful as it would be if I saw this person as really representing what this company’s all about.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Kristie, this has been so interesting. Thank you for coming in.

KRISTIE ROGERS: Oh, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

HANNAH BATES: That was Kristie Rogers in conversation with Sarah Green Carmichael on the HBR IdeaCast. Rogers is an associate professor of management at Marquette University. We’ll be back next Wednesday with another hand-picked conversation about leadership from the Harvard Business Review. If you found this episode helpful, share it with your friends and colleagues, and follow our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you’re there, be sure to leave us a review. We’re a production of the Harvard Business Review. If you want more articles, case studies, books, and videos like this, find it all at HBR dot org. This episode was produced by Curt Nickisch, Amanda Kersey, Anne Saini, and me, Hannah Bates. Ian Fox is our editor. Music by Coma Media. Special thanks to Adam Buchholz, Rob Eckhardt, Maureen Hoch, Adi Ignatius, Karen Player, Ramsey Khabbaz, Nicole Smith, Anne Bartholomew, and you – our listener. See you next week.